Troubleshooting

WINDERSPORTS.NET

Welcome to Winder's

Seduction guide

This site is about the topic seduction and tips that i have learnt . I hope through this site you could gain valauble experience and information regarding seduction.

Troubleshooting

Handling the girls

If she asks for YOUR number instead
If she still refuses to give you her number - a strategy of covert persistence.
If she says "Why do you ask?" - read how to recover
If she asks "Are you trying to seduce me?" - you need to know how to answer.
"Have you ever...?" gets busted - what do you do, if she says "No" in response
Ejecting - you don't always have to close. Know when to cut your losses.
If she cancels a date - she screwed you Now what?
If she doesn't return your phone-calls/e-mails - a zero-tolerance policy.
If she shows disrespect for you - you dump her, aka The Returning Fox Theory.
The age difference problem - you shouldn't anticipate it, but its good to be prepared.
Nothing works with the girl - and you tried all your techniques.
If she says "Let's just be friends" - how to recover.
Dealing with rejection - why you should never get rejected and how to cope with it, if you do.
But I really want this girl! - why this is such a self-defeating attitude.

She wants YOUR number instead

"Why don't you give me YOUR number?".

The most beautiful of girls have a strange little hobby - they collect phone-numbers. And usually there's even a little competition going on between girls, who gets the most phone-numbers by the end of the evening / week / year. But are they ever gonna use all those numbers? Yes, when you least expected it.

That's why you shouldn't ever offer your phone number firsthand and that is why you have to pause and think if she asks for your number without offering hers. She just might be looking at you thinking "another sucker, let's see if I can extract a phone number". Then again, she just simply might not feel comfortable giving you her number, but either way - if you only give yours without getting hers in exchange, your chances of ever seeing her again will plummet.

One way to salvage the situation, saying "Well I keep a rather hectic schedule, if you call me, you'll probably end up developing a long lasting and fulfilling relationship with my answering machine. I'm in and out a lot. However, with your number I could call you when I was able to actually talk."

If she still refuses to give you her number

If she seems reluctant to give you her phone-number both after structuring an opportunity for her to offer her number and straight-out asking for it, whatever you do, don't push it. You need to remain polite and safe, like its no big deal if she doesn't want to give you her number. But that doesn't mean you'll have to write her off in your mind.

"Remember: when approaching a woman you have never met you must not be too overwhelming because it can make her back up. You must still be persistent however and the best thing you can do if you really want her is this - ask her a couple of times about dating you and if this doesn't work change the subject to idle chit chat.

In this chit chat you have 2 goals.

The first is to make an impression on her what a good guy you are. Women love a guy that can hold some sort of conversation.

The second goal and more important is to find out where she works and her name. People's favorite subject is themselves and you can run a conversation purely on questions about her. You can say "Oh by the way my name is Johnny". If she doesn't automatically tell you her's you should ask for it almost immediately after you have given your's. "So what industry are you in?". Wait till she answers then say: "Do you like it"? Now she may even tell you at this point where or who her employer is but if she doesn't you say: "Oh, where do you work from? I know someone that does that and they really love it". Here you are creating an impression that you have something in common with her and she will loosen up and think you are safe to be with. You have also made her feel good that her profession is one that you respect.

Now that you know her name and the place she works in you should be the one that makes the move to leave.

And a couple of days later you can phone the operator of the place she works in and ask for her:) Remember to introduce yourself and remind her of your encounter a few days before. She might pretend she can't quite remember you or the enconter but you can be certain that she does - she's just testing you if her forgetfulness about you can put you off. Just continue.....

If she says "Why do you ask?"

Asking all those questions needed to evoke emotions and elicit values can sometimes result in her asking you a "Why do you ask?" in return. Be prepared to answer her honestly. Because what you are "really" doing, is trying to get to know to her better or rather, give her a chance to show you whether she is the kind of person you should get to know better. And the questions are there only to help and guide her along the way.

You: …remember the things you wanted to say to that person, and the daydreams and thoughts that kept coming in and out of your head about the two of you? Privately, deep inside you - do you remember how you felt?

Her: Why do you ask?
You: Well… as we are sitting here talking… over coffee… I thought it would be nice … to get to know you… as a person… I remember one girl (doesn't matter if you do or not:)… I was in college… it was like there was an almost magical bond connecting us… we would even finish each others sentences. I wonder did you ever… feel that way… With me… it is so wonderful… to have that sort of connection… don't you think?
Her: Yeah! (or whatever)
And if you get busted while doing an If she is working:
You: Well, you're working now and I could see you seemed a little tired, so I just wanted to take your mind off your job for a moment and have you imagine something relaxing and soothing right here"

If she asks "Are you trying to seduce me?"

Trying the techniques provided here could sometimes result in the woman asking you with a sly smile:

"Are you trying to seduce me?"
"So you enjoy seducing women?"
"Have you broken many hearts?"
"You're a player, aren't you?"

"I enjoy getting to know a woman who is intelligent and natural. For me there is nothing finer then feeling that incredible connection with someone that you feel so very close to." You just made her feel even better while avoiding a direct answer.

Update. NihgLight9 explains, why neither a "yes" or a "no" are good anwers to a question like that. NightLight9, ASF: "I think mystery is something you want. Being known as a ladies man is good thing with some women, but not others, but having her wonder is probably better than either. If your going after women who are older, more experienced or want to seem older your experience would be a real plus. I see a lot of women who want a guy who has had a few partners, but not a lot. They don't want to train, but they don't want a "player." Being a player makes them not feel like they are special."

"Have you ever…?" gets busted

If she says "no" to a "have you ever…?", she's probably young and/or inexperienced. Or wants you to bail Well never mind all that, you can go on with "well, neither have I, but my friend Sandra told me, that…" and now go in with your original description and take her on a trip like she's never been to before:)

If she just keeps interrupting and blabbering and won't let you take her on a trip, then, at least according to Ross Jeffries, switching to third person ("my friend Christina told me, that she feels…" should do the trick as well. That should shut her up, as it is supposedly rude to blabber about yourself when your conversation partner talks about a third person.

Or, use this one:

"Have you ever met someone (sp) and instantaneously feel such a complete attraction for him (sp), that you feel like you just _have_ to do something about it? It's the kind of feeling, that you just have to get near that guy and you know, that even if you never see him again, you'll be happy with all your choices and you'll always cherish the pleasant memories?"

"No"

"Well that's just so interesting, how different people have different experiences, but my friend Lola was just telling me about an experience just like that (now you can go in with describing that experience in even further detail)"

Ejecting

You don't always have to close. Ross Jeffries: "I don't need to win all the time; I size up a woman's potential and either go for it or move on and cut my losses FAST. Sometimes the best choice is just to say, "adios" and move on. When you realise that you don't have to win (or close) all the time, then it takes the pressure off and you become much more relaxed.

In addition to her not rising up to meet your standards, you could be dealing with a woman who for some reason or another simply isn't interested. So if you are getting none of the signs of her being interested in you in a reasonable amount of time after a reasonable amount of effort on your part to demonstrate personality and entertain her (with the help of using eliciting values, patterns, GM style, neghits, telling anecdotes or funny/interesting/intriguing stories etc), you should call it off and eject.

It leaves an opening for a possible future interaction and also your time will be better spent looking for and interacting with other girls who know to appreciate you instead of this one who does not etc.

Here's an example ejection phrase suggested by Mystery for use in a club/bar situation: "The night's young... pleasure meeting you".

She cancels a date

Ross Jeffries:

You: Look...you made a commitment to spend time with me and now you're blowing me off. You're disrespecting me and disrespecting my time and I'm NOT going to put up with it. My rule is, if someone makes a commitment to me, I expect them to keep it. If they can't keep it, I need to know at least a day in advance so I can make other plans. Got it? If you can live with that rule, great...if not, sayanora!

Then, HANG UP!!

She'll probably call back with five minutes and apologise and ask you out!!! I'm not kidding here; I've seen the hardest, jaded bitches go to giggly little girls, eager to please me when I've done this. It throws some kind of switch in their heads. I guess with some people, you don't really get their attention until... You Give Them A Swift Kick In The Ass!!

Scenario 2

You go to pick her up at her place and she either keeps you waiting outside for more than ten minutes, or lets you in and then proceeds to talk on the phone for at least that long while totally ignoring you. Wait for her to finish, and as soon as she does say something like this:

YOU: Can I ask you a question?
HER: Sure.
YOU: Are you being intentionally rude to test me, or are you just an accidental asshole?
HER: (mouth dropping open in shock, unable to say anything!)
YOU: Don't ever keep me waiting like this again, ok? I'll always treat you respectfully, but I expect the same. Do you understand me?
HER: Uh… uh… yes.
YOU: Good. Let's see you make it up to me.
And at this point grab her and kiss her passionately. If you can, try to turn this into a fuck then and there.

Why give her an evening on the town and reward her rotten behaviour?

If she doesn't return your phone-calls/e-mails

Things are looking grim if she doesn't seem to be returning a phone-call or an e-mail. But not all is lost yet as it all depends how you proceed from here.

One certain way to mess things up is calling / e-mailing her some more with the message being that although you are just slightly confused as to why she hasn't answered you yet, its ok anyway, lets try again, "here's my number one more time" etc. Bad. This is sure-fire method of losing her.

Another way to react is not to react at all - you sent your message, she received it, now its her turn to act, and if she doesn't, well, too bad. This method lets you keep your integrity and pride, but you could also be losing out on women who either can't seem to be able to make up their minds (but beware, they will definetly decide against you once they receive a supplicating follow-up message from you!) and/or are the kind of girls, that know to start "behaving" only after having received a few "slaps" from you.

So if hopes were high (you hit it off well, she gave you her number etc, any signals of possible interest you might have received from her will do) but now she seems to have disappeared - show that you WILL NOT TOLERATE such a behaviour, and only because you saw some potential for the two of you are you WILLING to give her ONE LAST CHANCE.

Update. This approach also works if she does return your e-mails and phone-calls, but never seems to have time to actually get together with you. So if she always seems to have some prior engagements or projects or business or other BS to take care of and never time for you, here's an example of a simple and direct message by Maniac High (http://www.pickupguide.com), ASF:

"Hi xxx
So are you going to make time to meet me, or are you always busy? I am free Sunday afternoon btw."

If she disrespects you

The Returning Fox theory, originated by Ray Parker, explained by NYC, ASF: "At the first sign of disrespect to you OR passing up an opportunity to spend time with you, you dump her. When she calls you wanting to go out or something, you tell her that her behaviour was unacceptable and that the only way you are going to let her hang out with you again is if she (make up whatever shit you want her to do because she broke the rules, fuck, suck, whatever). If she doesn't agree to your terms tell her don't call you again until you are ready to meet my demands and HANG UP. The point of returning fox is that she is crawling back to you so you have the POWER in the relationship."

Ross Jeffries suggests issuing a warning at first, which is pretty much the same thing - you have to show that you're serious about it. "Don't be afraid to call her on bullshit she might pull. Girls will always test your limits... so the first time they do, call them on it. Tell her that you won't put up with that shit and not to do it again. NEVER forget you were born without her. And that there are a hundreds more like her and a thousands more that are even better than her."

Update. Disrespect is also a form of test - she is testing you in order to find out whether you are a supplicating or a man. Mr Happy, ASF: "In order to pass such a test (an example of which is cancelling a date), you must:

Show that you don't lose your temper over it.
Show that you don't whine like a baby over it.
Show that it doesn't really phase you.
Show that you DO find it disrespectful and that you don't tolerate that.
(4) is the most important point, but you MUST do it in such a way that (1,2,3) are true."

Update. The Returning Fox theory explained by the originator himself. Ray Parker, ASF:
"A Returning Fox is one who has shown no previous interest in you or rejected you, but who has "returned" and approached you after you have forgotten her. This puts you in a temporary position of power.

With a Returning Fox, you should ask for whatever it is you want from her at the piont of return. If she does not come across, she likely never will, and you can send her packing once again, repeating the process as many times as you have to each time she returns.

For example, if she turned you down for a date, you stopped talking to her, and she now contacts you "just to say hi" just ask her out on the spot. Optionally, you can add a reference to how puzzled you are she'd contact you and how you don't really need to talk. If she doesn't bail out there, just ask for what you want.

The method works very well in many situations. It also has short-term applications for Foxes who ignore you at clubs or parties and then "return" later."

The age difference problem

It is undoubtedly a consideration for many women. Being "too young" for a woman is rarely a problem, as older women welcome younger guys in their arms quite gladly Being "too old" for a woman is a much more serious issue, especially with women fresh into womanhood (late teens and early to middle 20s).

So if you anticipate your age might turn into a potential problem, what do you do?

Here's a suggestion by Mystery, ASF: "Lie - serious. You only have to lie for the first 2 weeks. Then you let them in on the secret as if only they know... not even your MOM knows the truth. Girl's alredy fucked you. Then the TRUTH brings you closer. Trust me, I KNOW."

If you prefer to keep your integrity and stay honest, the best way to do it is to reframe the problem of whether you are too old to whether she is mature enough. Scot Scinner, ASF:

Her: Aren't you a little old for me? How old are you?

Him: 42.

Her: See, I'm 19. That's too big of a difference in ages.

Him: It is not a question of the differences in our ages, as it is a question of whether or not you are mature enough to become involved with me.

Her: Yeah, right. (or) I mature enough...blah, blah, blah.

Him: When you GO INSIDE and THINK about the advantages, of being with an older man, if you could just DO IT NOW, you'll see that there are plenty [continue with patterning].

Update. Razor505, direct contribution: "First you always wait for her to bring up the difference (you must know the difference i.e. 15, 17 years whatever). Second listen to whatever she says at this point... feed it back to her, then tell her "Look, you don't have to imagine how either way it goes we both win, right? (keep talking dont give her a chance to respond) I mean if we just become good friends we win right (don't give her a chance to respond) or if we become more we still win right (keep going) or if we go each our own ways we still win right?" And instanly ask something about her. It is very important to say all this as off hand as you can."

Nothing works with this girl

You've tried patterns, eliciting values, being friendly-touchy-kino, maybe some GM, Smooth, even being a bad-boy hasn't worked. Then just start ignoring her, be rude, if she asks "why?", say because you just want to, you'll just do what you want. She just might start making passes on you and if you keep on just ignoring her and pushing her away, it'll make her crazy and eventually you can do whatever you want with her. But don't use it unless really nothing else has worked so far. Remember, she hasn't responded to you favourably, so she's on her way out anyway. But if it now turns out that she is the kind that likes a little kick in the buttocks every once in a while, well good for you

Dealing with rejection

Ideally, that should never happen. If however you come to a point of being rejected, you have twice failed - for some reason, neither did you make her feel good nor did you notice this fact, which in itself constitutes a second failure.

This is how some of them deal with it.

ASF:

Say "It's been a pleasure meeting you:)". Say it like you really really mean it - in a friendly, respectful yet empathic manner. This way:

you'll make her see that her behaviour didn't get to you one bit, you don't NEED her company, you just offered her a chance to be in your company
you'll set yourself apart from all the losers who leave mumbling "bitches, they're all the same…" after having striked out
you'll remain cool, confident, a gentleman in good humour. And she'll feel crappy after realising SHE just lost YOU! Or if she has simply ignored you, add "...didn't realise you were deaf "

Ross Jeffries: if a woman accepts you, it doesn't mean that the next one will, so stay on your toes, and don't get lazy or sloppy. And if she rejects you, it just means that the approach you tried, at this particular time, with this particular woman, hasn't worked... yet. It might work at another time with her, or you may just need another approach.

As Jeffries says, "The difference between losers and winners is that losers don't fail enough."

Ross Jeffries's attitude: "The worst that can happen, is that you find out some girl doesn't want to play with you". Remember - you were about to give her a fantastic gift (be it through patterns or an orgasm of a lifetime:). If she turns you down - poor girl, she doesn't know what she just lost:)

Update. The reasons for a girl to reject you according to Johnny Shack (http://showgirls.com.au). Keep in mind though, that Mr Shack seems to prefer the numbers game without wanting to do much individual groundwork of making the girls like him beforehand. He just presents himself as best he can, makes his offer as sincere and compelling as he can, and if rejected, turns to these reasons in his mind:

"There are only three reasons that will cause a rejection. Believe in them and you will be unbeatable!

1. She has a boyfriend.

2. She already wants a friend of your's.

3. She doesn't have the confidence to say yes. You need to work out whether you want to chase this woman or not. Many women really do not feel they are good enough to be asked on a date and therefore automatically say no. She may also have been burn't by some guy recently or in the past and this attributes to her lack of confidence. The problem the woman faces is that the longer she goes on with this and doesn't face her fears then the more like vinegar she becomes.

But I really want this girl!

No, this is exactly the wrong attitude. Act like you dont give a shit.The ones giving you trouble can sense instantly that you're not phased by it, you're displaying none of the usual signs of despair, heart-ache, supplication etc. You just don't give a damn, you just don't have time to give a damn, you're got too much action going on elsewhere. Guess what?:) This is exactly what suddenly makes you desirable in their eyes

Update. Mr Happy, ASF: "Do not ever fixate on any one woman, it turns her off. To lay her, she must believe that you like to fuck women, that you would like to fuck her, but that you don't NEED her because you have all kinds of women all over you.

The good way to gain such an attitude is to go out and approach 8 women a day, 4 days/nights a week. That's 32 women a week. Your skills will undergo massive improvement with such practice. You should always be able to blow off any woman to go pick up another one. If you won't put in the effort, you will not get the results. If you DO put in the effort, you WILL improve and get great results."

Update. Allen Thompson, Don Juan newsletter:

If you're worrying about whether a girl likes you or not, chances are she doesn't - or rather, SHE WON'T. She won't because your "worry" and your obsession with what she thinks of you will actually push her away. When you let yourself fall into the "obsession" trap, you begin to analyze everything your dream girl does, every word she says, every move she makes... and try to relate them all to you. This leads to Confusion, frustration, and anxiety result."

Back to the Top

Your Ad Here

Click the button to inform your friends about this site.